Punishment in the DoJang: Your Opinion!

Comment

Comment by Kevin Sogor on February 6, 2012 at 5:08pm

Hello all,

I read this, walked away from it for a month, then read it again...here is my logic on this issue. 

An instructor that cannot control a class is not proficient in that craft. Period.  I learned that doing student teaching with a class of 9 year olds.  When one talked out of turn, there were plenty of ways to get their classmates to get them to focus...far better than punishing a whole class.  Now, as a Hapkido instructor, I cannot imagine "punishing" paying adult students - that just boggles my mind. 

The very punitive nature of what you were subjected too would seriously make me question, if I were a student, the motivations of this person, and I would certainly bring this up to the dojang owner.  If you are afraid of a teacher, how can you possible ever learn from them?  It's fine to be training to eventually survive any attack, that's great.  But you are doing so as paying students, not servants, or kow towing  adherents to a cult...

Instructors that "punish" students demonstrate physical strength at times, but have some underlying issue of weakness that is far more troublesome.

Comment by Torbjorn Karlsen on December 7, 2011 at 2:45am

Well, for starters I'm questioning the need for 3.5 pages worth of "dojang rules." Since you've already written them, perhaps we could see a copy? I'm genuinely curious. I have an old set of dojang rules, but it's barely one A4 page and I don't distribute it anymore.

 

I tend to be opposed to punishment in the dojang, as it is not a good motivator and rarely has any effect except to create or reinforce ill tempers. If one of the kids is disruptive to the point where I feel they can't take part in the practice, they have to "sit out" for a period. I never use physical activity like pushups etc. as a punishment. That sort of mentality has been abolished from modern coaching long ago.

 

Banning humans from talking during what is essentially a social gathering is just counterproductive. Yes, on some occasions (like when the instructor is explaining something) everyone has to be quiet, but that's self-explanatory. During actual practice I can see no good reason for  completely prohibiting talking, although I'd comment on superfluous or irrelevant "chat."

 

We all also need to remember this is not the military, or Japan/Korea in the 1200s. You are paying to receive a service. You are not wasting your instructor's time - she is wasting yours, and your fellow students' unless she can make each and every lesson effective and useful. Collective punishment is neither effective nor useful.

Comment by SteelyJan on December 6, 2011 at 7:06pm

Wow everyone! Don't get me wrong , I really respect this woman , she is an incredible teacher and martial artist! I love her classes. Why she chose to do this I have no idea??? Yes I would prefer physical torture to this ! I did the chore although many students didn't giving her various reasons. I think I would have a serious issue if I was asked to go this again...a wack with the stick would suit me fine!

Comment by Brett Huelsmann on December 5, 2011 at 11:19pm

I agree with Mr. Rogers.

the site needs a like and dislike button!

lol Mr. rogers was an awesome show.

Comment by Matthew Rogers on December 5, 2011 at 9:14pm

Like it was said in Fast Times at Ridgemont High, "Isn't this OUR time?"

It never ceases to amaze the willingness of very mature people, including myself, to relinquish control of their lives and behaviour to someone acting in a very unworthy way. I think psychologically we give some teachers so much leeway because we see the dojang as a 'different culture' where regular rules of society don't apply. Would you let the teacher of your spin class or weight lifting coach behave in this way.

My very old school Korean teacher had many faults but we never suffered through this particular embarrassment. He usually solved school discipline problems with front kick, This has its own problems but I understand it better than your teacher's method which is just juvenile and disrespectful.

Do you think 10 years from now you are going to be proud of the fact that you let your instructor treat you like a 5 year old? There is no pride on either side of that equation; your teacher treating you so disrespectfully or your acquiescing to a task which is a patently absurd waste of time.

In any training class I have ever attended in my life, any 'punishment' other getting your butt kicked took the form of training the student so hard they felt like they were dying. But in the end you new that you were getting the benefit of that training anyway. In the end you benefited and it was with that intention that you were asked to do activity. Good intentions and not power mongering has to be behind an action or we shouldn't be afraid to call things as they are.

Be careful in choosing the people you willing allow to have power over you.

Sorry. My very opinionated 2 cents.

Comment by Brett Huelsmann on December 5, 2011 at 5:37pm

I punish my class is they are very disobedient. Its mainly running or some other type of constructive training. Like we exercise for 30min and workout for 30. Ill have they line up and practice falling for 10 mins as a punishment. I do not punish the adult classes.

Comment by Paul Meek on December 5, 2011 at 12:33am

we dont have punishment but my Insructor will lt you know if you step over the mark, we are strict on protocol so talking over the Instructor doesnt really happen fortunately, writing essays is child like behaviour, surely an chat after class about dojang behaviour is much more useful, In fact in our hapkido class the senior Instructors would take action before the Instructor needed to.

Comment by Tom Adam on December 4, 2011 at 11:36pm

If you ever have to spend more than 3 minutes explaining an issue - you are wasting your breath.

In 3 years instructing, I have only ever lost my "cool" twice. One time it was because another blackbelt was injuring students he was training with, the other was when a student decided to swear at me in class.

In both cases, it was taken care of after the class when no one else was present. You never take out punishment on the whole class unless the entire class is at fault - and that never happens.

Only a lazy instructor punishes the entire class if they cannot control the students.

Comment by Kenny Bryant Smith on December 1, 2011 at 8:30am

I usually just ask adults chatting to "enlighten the rest of the class with your discussion" and it stops there.

Comment by Kenny Bryant Smith on December 1, 2011 at 8:30am

Personally, I wouldn't ask my students to write anything except for a black belt essay. Reason: I don't want to read that.

As for pushups and planks, they have their place. When it comes to adults, that place is at the beginning of class for conditioning. As for punishing the group, that wastes everyone's time. Now, when teaching taekwondo I would smoke a group of kids Parris Island style (minus the DI-Speak of course)...

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